Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Forum for the PDF-XChange Editor - Free and Licensed Versions

Moderators: TrackerSupp-Daniel, Tracker Support, Paul - Tracker Supp, Vasyl-Tracker Dev Team, Chris - Tracker Supp, Sean - Tracker, Ivan - Tracker Software, Tracker Supp-Stefan

Post Reply
taltomare@doc-it.com
User
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by taltomare@doc-it.com »

Hello,

I'm wondering if there is a way to get the bookmarks connected to the page location like it does in Adobe. I hate to make a comparison like that because your editor is heads above that one. But the ability to move a page with the bookmark is a key function in the Accounting and CPA vertical.

If not can this be added to the list of enhancement request?

Thanks,
-Troy
User avatar
Tracker Supp-Stefan
Site Admin
Posts: 17824
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:07 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello Troy,

Bookmarks are a logical structure - not hard linked to the pages and their content, but they can point to e.g. Page number x, or to some special "Named destinations" - if your bookmark is to a named destination - that destination would "move" with the page. So when you move a page - a bookmark pointing to a named destination on that page - will continue to point to the same - irrespective of where the page was moved.

These KB articles should also be useful:
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowle ... e-document
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowle ... nge-Viewer
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowle ... a-document


Regards,
Stefan
User avatar
David.P
User
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by David.P »

Hi @all,

I believe there is a similar feature request here:
Move page ranges by Alt-dragging bookmarks
Image
David.P
PDF-XChange Pro
User avatar
Tracker Supp-Stefan
Site Admin
Posts: 17824
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:07 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hi David,

Thanks for pointing that out - but when a bookmark points to a named destination, and the page with that destination moves - is one thing, and being able to control the much more structured content of the PDF file via the logical bookmark tree are quite different. It is true that most of the time bookmarks point to pages in the same file - but they are not limited to just that, and implementing the feature you brought up is quite more complicated and I believe should remain in it's separate topic.

Regards,
Stefan
User avatar
David.P
User
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by David.P »

Thank you Stefan,

I believe that this feature should not be much more complicated than the 'insert pages by dragging between bookmarks feature'
(which is worth its weight in gold IMHO :D).

The general rule for moving pages by Alt-dragging bookmarks could be defined like this:
David.P wrote:Since a bookmark that points to a section in a PDF file only can point to the start of that section (i.e. there is never any information about the end of a section or chapter assigned with a bookmark), the logic simply would have to be:
  • Always act on the pages starting with the selected bookmark's target page and ending before the target page of the first subsequent bookmark [if any].
If a bookmark should not point to a page or named destination, there is no problem anyway because in this case, only the bookmark's position in the bookmark pane would change, and everything else would stay in place.

But I agree that this could/should be discussed over there (in case the present thread is about something different, of which however I am not entirely sure).

Thank you,
David
David.P
PDF-XChange Pro
User avatar
Will - Tracker Supp
Site Admin
Posts: 6815
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by Will - Tracker Supp »

Hi David,

It's not quite that simple - The bookmarks may be moved the just before/just after a bookmark that does not point to a page in that file (or may even be moved between two bookmarks that point to different files). We have no idea whether 1) The user intends the pages to be moved to before/after the page range pointed to by the next/previous bookmark, in line, that contains references to the same file, or 2) Whether they intend the bookmark to be moved to the document that either of the other bookmarks points to and, if the user does intend that, where in the file do we add the pages? This is also further complicated by the fact that bookmarks do not always follow any chronological order. A bookmark that points to Pg.2 may follow a bookmark that points to Pg.562.

There are a lot of things to consider and account for, making this very likely an impractical implementation. It would be much easier to use named destinations rather than literal links, then the pages & bookmarks could both be reorganized with minimal editing.
If posting files to this forum, you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded.
Thank you.

Best regards

Will Travaglini
Tracker Support (Europe)
Tracker Software Products Ltd.
http://www.tracker-software.com
User avatar
David.P
User
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by David.P »

Hi Will and thank you for your thoughts on this.

The bookmarks may be moved just before/just after a bookmark that does not point to a page in that file
That would not be a problem -- in this case move the pages just in front of the page with the next 'proper' bookmark (that points to the same file). If there is none, move the pages to the end of the file.

The bookmarks may be moved between two bookmarks that point to different files.
…again, just move the pages before the page with the next 'proper' bookmark (pointing to the same file).

We have no idea whether 1) the user intends the pages to be moved to before/after the page range pointed to by the next/previous bookmark, in line, that contains references to the same file,
…same as above: always move the pages before the page with the next 'proper' bookmark.

...or 2) whether they intend the bookmark to be moved to the document that either of the other bookmarks points to and, if the user does intend that, where in the file do we add the pages?
…simple rule, never move pages to another file when dragging bookmarks around in the same file. Instead, again move the pages in front of the page with the next bookmark that is pointing to the same file.

This is also further complicated by the fact that bookmarks do not always follow any chronological order. A bookmark that points to Pg.2 may follow a bookmark that points to Pg.562.
…correct, in this case move both pages 2…n [n = page number of first page after page 2 having a bookmark assigned to it minus 1], and pages 562…m [m = page number of first page after page 562 having a bookmark assigned to it minus 1] to the drop target (i.e. in front of the page with the bookmark that is below the drop target).

You see, it's all rather straightforward :)

I agree however that this feature really falls under the "icing" category and that there probably are some other pieces of cake that need to be baked first.... Also, the feature possibly could lead to confusion when not used thoughtfully. However, for me personally with files where the bookmarks pane easily can look like this, it still would be a dream feature :|

Thank you, and ave a great weekend
David
David.P
PDF-XChange Pro
User avatar
Will - Tracker Supp
Site Admin
Posts: 6815
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by Will - Tracker Supp »

Hi David,

The logic that you are applying is one of a myraid of possible uses that, if implemented, would as always soon see calls for expansion that we simply cannot reasonably accomodate. It is also not as simple, programmatically, as it would appear on the surface.

Quite simply, the Bookmarks tree is not intended to act in this way and point only to a location/Named Destination in the document, not the actual page. My colleagues and I are all in agreement that this not something that we would be interested in implementing at this time.

But as always, we do appreciate the input!
If posting files to this forum, you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded.
Thank you.

Best regards

Will Travaglini
Tracker Support (Europe)
Tracker Software Products Ltd.
http://www.tracker-software.com
User avatar
David.P
User
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by David.P »

Thank you very much Will, and please bear with me for one more small round in this case.

The arguments that you put forward with respect to possible problems partially are the same that we discussed with respect to the earlier 'insert pages by dragging between bookmarks' feature, here.
Image

Over there, these problems however could be broken down to, and completely solved by, the simple rule:
  • Always insert pages dragged from Windows Explorer between existing bookmarks
    --> before the first page of the first subsequent "proper" bookmark.
This is also exactly how the above feature got implemented (by Sasha's wizardry :) -- and it works like a charm (a world's first in PDF-XChange Editor, to my knowledge).

Also, the above part (i.e. where are the dragged pages inserted?) would remain exactly the same for the possible new feature "moving pages by Alt-dragging bookmarks", so there is no problem at all with respect to the question of the dropping target, because this is already solved over there.

The only question that seems to remain is the definition of the dragging source, in other words the definition of the range of pages that is associated with a certain bookmark, or with a number of bookmarks, when pages are moved by moving bookmarks.

However, regarding this question basically a very similar simple rule can be applied:
  • When Alt-dragging a bookmark, move all pages starting with the page of that bookmark
    up to the next page that has a bookmark assigned to it, minus one:
Image

Again, please bear with my doggedness in this case…

I absolutely understand that this does not have high-priority. With the above, I just would like to try and clarify that this feature could be implemented almost as straightforward as the earlier 'insert pages by dragging between bookmarks' feature, and that in my view, there is no reason to expect problems or calls for expansion with the latter feature -- much in the same way as there are none (to my knowledge) with the former.

Thank you again
keep up the great work
David
David.P
PDF-XChange Pro
User avatar
Will - Tracker Supp
Site Admin
Posts: 6815
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:21 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by Will - Tracker Supp »

Hi David,

Your comments and suggestions are most definitely appreciated, but I'm afraid that our current stance on this is firm. The current behaviour is a defining feature of the intentions of a bookmark tree and, as such, will not be modified in this way.

Again, thanks for the suggestion as always!
If posting files to this forum, you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded.
Thank you.

Best regards

Will Travaglini
Tracker Support (Europe)
Tracker Software Products Ltd.
http://www.tracker-software.com
User avatar
David.P
User
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by David.P »

Thank you Will, that's absolutely understood!

The Devs. always can come back here at any later time if they want -- and simply take the specifications of that feature from the above :D

Best regards
David
:)
David.P
PDF-XChange Pro
User avatar
Tracker Supp-Stefan
Site Admin
Posts: 17824
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:07 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Moving Bookmarks Moves Page?

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

:)
Post Reply