How to crop permanantly?

horst siegert · Post by **horst siegert** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:45 pm

Hi,
to reduce filesize I want to crop pages. But when I reopen the file, the crop box shows the original page size (with the crop box I have drawn).
But I would like to do a real cut not only a virtual.
horst

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:33 pm

Hello Horst,

You will need to crop the page, and then reprint it to a new PDF file - this way the content that is currently outside of the crop box will be skipped and not included in the new file.

Regards,
Stefan

horst siegert · Post by **horst siegert** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:25 pm

Hi Stefan,
thank you for the quick response and the 'workaround'.
I thought about that but didn't expected to be the only way (it doesn't fit to the high quality standard of the software.)
So, this is a point for the next version

.
horst
A bit later: I found another way that seem to be a bit more 'professionel

):
- select all pages in the Thumbnail view
- right click and select menue: Resize pages
- select the desired size (a bit bigger than the biggest cropped result - in my case A5)
- save with a new filename.
The resize option seem to recognize the cropped area!

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:31 pm

Hi Horst,

But is the new resulting file smaller?
Can you send a before and after samples (that do not contain sensitive data if posting here in the forums)?

Regards,
Stefan

horst siegert · Post by **horst siegert** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:56 pm

Here they are.
Good question. The reprint is a bit smaller, the resized version not.
For the reprinted version it may be, that I use different jpeg compression.
horst

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:14 pm

Hi Horst,

The reason why the new file, which with a crop box that is now with the smaller dimensions, is still the same size is because the full images are still there (check the attached image).
So just as per my previous post - the only way to permanently remove the cropped content currently is to reprint the file.

Regards,
Stefan

horst siegert · Post by **horst siegert** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:00 pm

Good evenning Stefan,

Tracker Supp-Stefan wrote:... because the full images are still there

that is deception

Cropping is a feature I use often ... and I am sure not only I.
So, can't you implement a feature like: resize document to visible content?
horst
edit: I really have to thinck over my workflow in scanning documents. Very often they are samller than A4, but I scan as A4 and crop afterwards.
I just checked this with my grafik software, scanned A4, cropped to A6 and saved as pdf. No hidden anything.

Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:21 am

Hi Horst,

the crop works the way it does because of the PDF specifications, not our software implementation. You could however make use of redaction. Redaction actually removes the content. You could then crop the pages to size and the file will be smaller.

Apply a redaction to the unwanted area:
Document --> Redaction --> Mark for Redaction

Make the redaction fill none
With the redaction selected use the Properties Pane (CTRL+` - note that this is the back tick next to the 1 not a single quote) to change the fill to none.

Repeate the redaction
Before applying the redaction you can use Object --> Duplicate Annotations --> Duplicates count (number of pages) --> Page Offset (1 page)
This will repeat your redaction on all pages in the same location.

Apply the Redaction
Document --> Redaction --> Apply All Redactions

Crop the document
Use Crop as you did already and the extra blank space will be hidden. The page size will still be the full pages as in any crop but the content in the cropped area will be removed both reducing the file size and making it impossible to retrieve the cropped and redacted content.

It is a possibility to make such a feature that combines this as a tool. I raised a Feature Request for this : RT#2812: Feature Request : Crop with redaction

hth

Seeker45 · Post by **Seeker45** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:05 pm

+1

That is a feature I have been missing over Acrobat - not saying that I expect identical features from a product at a tenth of the price.

Cheers
Ralf

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:30 pm

Thanks for adding your voice Ralf!

Cheers,
Stefan

dreal franche comte · Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:50 am

Hi all,

I'm joining this thread after noticing that cropped files have the same size as the original ones.
Paul's workaround seems way too complex, especially since I don't want to "remove an area" but to "keep an area" (which is not exactly the same: I would need to do this for four areas that surround the area I want to keep).

The other option ("reprint" the file) looks much easier, but how do you do this? I haven't found "reprint" in the online help.

An automatic way to crop and save to a reduced file size (new tool?) would be most welcome

Post by **Will - Tracker Supp** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:10 pm

Hi dreal franche comte,

Thanks for the post - in order to reprint the file, you would need a PDF printer, to 'reprint' the document to PDF:
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/product ... hange-lite
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/product ... e-standard

HTH!

dreal franche comte · Post by **dreal franche comte** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:39 pm

Will - Tracker Supp wrote:in order to reprint the file, you would need a PDF printer, to 'reprint' the document to PDF:
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/product ... hange-lite

In the meantime I did so using the "PDF-XChange Printer Lite 2012" print driver.
A bit tedious, since I had to enter a Custom paper size to fit the new shape and size of the page (which I had to dig out of the crop dialog box). And strangely the resulting file size is way larger (2.2 vs 1.7 MB) than the original, non-cropped file

Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:54 pm

in that case dreal franche comte I think your best option is to wait and see if the RT#2812: Feature Request : Crop with redaction feature eventuates.

hth

dreal franche comte · Post by **dreal franche comte** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:25 am

Paul - Tracker Supp wrote:your best option is to wait and see if the (...) Crop with redaction feature eventuates.

I'll do so, but I can't believe that such an advanced and feature-rich software like the Editor doesn't currently have a straightforward way to crop and reduce a file size.
I've just transferred the above mentionned file (1.7 MB) to my Mac, opened it with Apple's software Preview (an old version dating back to 2009!) and after defining the area I want to keep, Cmd-K + Cmd-S gave me a 192 kB file within 30 seconds after opening the file.
First time I am so disappointed by the Editor in two year usage, would appreciate a convenient new feature in this regard.

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:14 pm

Hello dreal franche comte

dreal franche comte wrote:[...such an advanced and feature-rich software like the Editor...

Thanks for the kind words! Indeed there are quite some features - and they all needed some time to be developed as well

Unfortunately the feature discussed here - crop and remove the "cut out" content - was behind those already implemented in the list. So I would have to ask for your patience - and we will get to this one as well as soon as time allows!

Regards,
Stefan

Special · Post by **Special** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:50 pm

This probably doesn't mean much, but this feature will probably be the only thing that gets me to move from Viewer to the payed Editor version, but right now I don't like the direction Editor has taken (ie bloat/non-portable, etc.) so I'm sticking with Viewer for now.

Post by **John - Tracker Supp** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:10 pm

Every users opinion is listened to and valid - so for sure it means something.

Of course you are welcome to stick to the Viewer and that's a valid choice, however;

With regards 'bloat' :

We are aware and very conscious of this and any new features added I assure you have been requested multiple times rather than just added on a 'whim' by us

RE: Portable versions

There are some technical issues with doing this which we are trying to resolve as the Editor works very very differently from the Viewer - but we do believe we are close to 'cracking' this in an acceptable way and hope to have the available - possibly in the next full release.

YouTube · Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:34 am

The possibility to crop with redaction from Crop Pages dialog will be implemented in the next build

Special · Post by **Special** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:08 pm

OMG you have no idea how happy this makes me.

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:15 pm

Special · Post by **Special** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:15 pm

Guess I'm just impatient or really excited for this, but a question I had about this feature. Does it take into account past cropping? What I mean is will it be backwards compatible with PDF's that I've already cropped to my liking, then once this feature is in, I just need to press a button to delete all the crop to reduce file sizes of all my PDF's. I hope it works exactly like the crop feature already, also please hurry (this part is important).

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:22 pm

Hello Special,

Most likely you will need to open each file (with an existing crop in it or not) - and perform the operation again - with the option to remove "excess" content at crop time selected.

Regards,
Stefan

Special · Post by **Special** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:41 pm

Oh that's to bad.

It works the same way as cropping currently does though right? As in I can select single pages, and more importantly batch the process by selecting a range of pages, or all pages, please say yes to this.

Post by **Paul - Tracker Supp** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:45 pm

Hi Special,

it's not clear yet how it will work.

YouTube · Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:05 am

Hi Special,
It will work exactly as cropping works now (same dialog), but you'll have an option to select whether to remove content outside the crop box area or not.

HTH

Special · Post by **Special** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:51 pm

I'm freaking hyperventilating right now.

Post by **Will - Tracker Supp** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:59 pm

Hi Special,

While we're ecstatic that you're so happy, we'd very much like for you to remain healthy and alive......

burns12 · Post by **burns12** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:01 pm

Sasha - Tracker Dev Team wrote:The possibility to crop with redaction from Crop Pages dialog will be implemented in the next build

What does redaction mean here? As with many image editing programs does this mean that you can crop and delete instead of only cropping and hiding the data? I would like to delete the cropped information permanently and hopefully reduce the file size in addition. Redaction could mean to "cover up", I dunno.

Post by **Will - Tracker Supp** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:17 pm

Hi burns12,

Thanks for the post - essentially, to redact something is to completely remove the content. Once an area has had redaction applied, the underlying information is completely removed. Typically, a section of redacted text or a redacted image, is denoted by placing a black box over the area (i.e. Government docs.), though in theory it can be denoted with any colour, or none at all.

HTH!

burns12 · Post by **burns12** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:41 pm

That doesn't sound very useful of a feature if it will just give cropped pages black borders, I was hoping to do something like this with the new crop feature (pretend these images are pdf pages of some kind

).

Untouched - 107KB

Cropped - 85KB

Why? - 101KB

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:26 am

Hi burns12,

Thanks for the suggestion. The dev team is looking into this and considering the implementation of a similar feature, though its exact workings have not yet been decided.

Cheers!

YouTube · Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:46 am

Hi burns12,
There won't be any black boxes or something else. The operation will work as same as normal Crop does, but it will remove content outside of the crop box area - just like your second picture.
HTH

Special · Post by **Special** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:21 pm

At first I was worried there was a misunderstanding, then I read Sasha's post, phew.

YouTube · Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:59 pm

Don't be bothered with the word "redaction" - we're using it to remove content that's all. For the end users the overall work of Crop operation will not be changed except of the option whether to remove content outside of the crop area or not

burns12 · Post by **burns12** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:26 am

Guess I'm really impatient or just excited about this feature, one small question that I have about how this will work. I will have a lot of cropping to do once this is released, my question is, will it work with already cropped PDFs? Like can I just press a button that will take existing crop dimensions and cut that part off? Or will I have to set new dimensions on all my PDFs again for this permanent crop? I'm just wondering if I can get a leg up on some of this work by doing the cropping now while I wait for the release, I don't want to bother if I'll have to do this all over again later.

Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:10 am

Hi burns12,

Thanks for the post - I'm not sure, currently, whether this will do that, so I would recommend holding off until the feature is released.

Alternately, if you're in a crunch, you can crop the pages as you need, then re-print to PDF and that this should remove the information.

Cheers,

Special · Post by **Special** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:22 pm

I just want to throw my voice in here that I think it would be really really really (did I say really?) great to have this feature added if it can't be done currently, a way to quickly copy the current Crop Box Margins over to this new "Permanent Crop Box Margins" option, I personally have a lot of already cropped PDFs and it will be a royal pain to redo a lot of this again when essentially it's already done. So hopefully this "Permanent Crop Box" will use the already existing Crop Box Margins or a way to take Crop Box Margins and append them and use them.

Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:20 pm

Hello Special,

Thanks for voicing your opinion. I am not sure it will be possible to do what you are asking by way of an implemented function or feature. Let me make sure I understand correctly: When the permanent crop box is implemented, you are looking to translate crop boxes from your previously saved documents to this new "permanent" crop box?

I doubt there will be a feature for this, but there may be the possibility of a script that can run to translate existing crop boxes. Would that satisfy you needs regarding this?

Cheers!

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:42 pm

Hello Special,

The new feature is actually a check box that is added to the existing Crop pages interface. I've just got a test build for investigating another issue - and you can see on the attached screenshot how this new permanent crop checkbox integrates in the current crop window.

Regards,
Stefan

Special · Post by **Special** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:41 pm

That's good and probably the best way to implement it, I'm happy.

I have PDFs with hundreds of pages and many of those pages have different crop margins, can that checkmark batch the process of all theses pages, but most importantly keeping their current margins intact?

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:46 pm

Hello Special,

Yes - just tested it. Cropped a document in the current Editor build (so no checkbox to remove the extra content), saved the file, then opened it in the test build - went to document -> Crop pages, and just hit the OK button there.
The result - the pages remained cropped where they were, and the extra content was removed. So I guess you will be able to process your existing files quickly and without much trouble.

Regards,
Stefan

Special · Post by **Special** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:40 pm

Just to clarify, lets say in a PDF pages 1,2,3,4,5 all had different crop margins, for simplicity's sake lets say page one had all edges at 1 inch, page two had all edges at 2 inches, three at 3 and so on, would all 5 pages get cropped differently with just a hit of the OK button? Or would I have to go through each page one by one and press OK. Sorry to keep pestering and making you test your test build, but like burns before me this could save me some time in the future if I understand correctly.

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:04 pm

Hi Special,

Apologies - just tested with different crops, and it seems like there is no way to just apply the "remove contents outside" and keep the current crops on each individual page. If you click "All pages" - the crop area is actually one and the same for all newly cropped pages, so it seems like you will need to do this page by page (or if say all odd and even pages are cropped the same way - in two steps once for odd and once for even pages in a document.

Regards,
Stefan

YouTube · Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:16 pm

It's an interesting idea and we took it into consideration. Maybe it would be some sort of optimizer option which will allow to remove content outside of the existing crop area on pages with options or just the different command with it's own settings dialog.

Special · Post by **Special** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:34 pm

The optimized options seems like a perfect fit for something like this, could fit under any of the Discard X or Clean up Y places.

Post by **Tracker Supp-Stefan** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:33 pm

Special · Post by **Special** » Wed May 20, 2015 5:09 pm

Sorry for the old bump, but was this feature going to get added with the next release, 313 or whatever?

Post by **Will - Tracker Supp** » Wed May 20, 2015 9:28 pm

Hi Special,

I'm not 100% sure, at the moment, and I'm not able to get time with the Devs. today. I'll let you know the if/when as soon as I'm able.

Cheers,

YouTube · Thu May 21, 2015 2:45 pm

Hi Special.

The check box to remove content outside of the crop box will be available in the Crop Dialog this build. Also, there would be a check box in the optimizer which would allow to remove content outside of the crop box when optimizing the document.