Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

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genegold
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Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

Several months ago, I alerted Tracker support to the fact that Editor updates were overriding the user's default pdf default setting in Windows (10). They still haven't gotten through their heads how obnoxiously rude and contrary to internet norms this behavior is. For me, I still prefer X-Change Viewer for the vast majority of my PDF reading and simple form fill-ins. But if I had another brand program as the default, with Editor as a second option, Tracker's failure to change their behavior would lead me to ditch it.
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Paul - Tracker Supp
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi genegold,

I can tell you with authority that we do not now, nor have we ever pushed a file preference what was not the user's choice. I cannot say the same for Adobe or Foxit for example.

When the Editor is installed we do not make arbitrary changes to the associations. On first run after an install the Editor will check to see if it is the default and prompt you to allow the association change unless you have already selected to not get these prompts, in which case it changes nothing.

I am keen to understand why you say that the Editor updates are overriding your preferences. If it is doing this without permission I would like to know because it is not designed to do so.

It does not do this on any of the text boxes I use. Can you tell me what preferences you have set that are being overridden and I will test here and correct any unintended behaviour found.

For example, it will be helpful to know:
  • what other PDF program is your default that is being changed away from?
  • What version (build) of Win 10?
  • which of our installers did you use?
I am keen to reproduce this issue as it is contrary to our policy.

regards
Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
genegold
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

First of all, the Editor override of your own X-Change Viewer as the Windows default setting has occurred numerous times, in fact every time for at least most of a year. X-Change Viewer is my default in Windows file associations and the system is Win 10 Pro 1607 x64. Since I work with Viewer 99% of the time, updates are typically done from within Viewer - Help > Check for Updates. Although I'm in Viewer, Editor updates invariably appear there too, if available. This last time, a few days ago, there was only an Editor update showing in Viewer, which is the first time I recall that (although maybe it happened before). The user, at least this user, gets no choice about the setting/resetting of the default pdf program association in the process, no matter whether they start the Editor update from within Tracker or within Editor (which I've done once or twice). Once the download and then install process is started from Check for Updates, there's no turning back except to cancel out. The end result is the blue Viewer-based pdf's on my desktop invariably and instantly turn Editor red, and the default file association in Windows Control Panel has to be reset. Invariably.

I notified you folks about this behavior many months ago and the only response I received was that it was not intended and you would look into it. Had someone gotten back to me substantively after that, I could have provided screenshots and most anything else needed. If needed, perhaps we could have even run a test case on my computer with appropriate software so you could watch.
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi again genegold,
First of all, the Editor override of your own X-Change Viewer as the Windows default setting has occurred numerous times, in fact every time for at least most of a year.
That is not how the product is designed and that should not be possible.

Once the download and then install process is started from Check for Updates, there's no turning back except to cancel out.

I must ask, why are you running an installer for a product (the Editor) that you do not want? If it shows an update for the Editor and you do not want the Editor simply do not update it. You do realise that the Viewer is a discontinued product that is no longer under development. Right?
I notified you folks about this behavior many months ago and the only response I received was that it was not intended and you would look into it. Had someone gotten back to me substantively after that, I could have provided screenshots and most anything else needed. If needed, perhaps we could have even run a test case on my computer with appropriate software so you could watch.
This is in my opinion the crux of the issue. The behaviour is not intended and if it is overriding your settings than an investigation is warranted. To date I have not seen any other reports of this and I apologise that this was not followed through to determine what is happening.

We do still support it in that we will fix critical errors, but that is all. This issue of the Editor taking over the associations IS something I want to get to the bottom of because I have it with good authority that it should not be possible.

I will run some tests on a Win 10 Pro x64 test machine and see if I can reproduce this. Can you tell me which build of the Viewer was installed that had it's file associations taken away from it so I can test the matching version?

regards
Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
genegold
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

As indicated in my OP, I installed Editor because occasionally it is of use. In that context, it's only sensible to keep it up to date. You've asked which build of Viewer. The last I have is 322.7 (August), but there's been more than that, as I see a Viewer and Editor updates periodically. I wrote you my disappointment around the time Viewer was phased out as a current program, because I find for the vast majority of basic browsing and occasional form filling, it's UI is simpler and very sufficient compared to the much UI busier Editor.

Over the course of my life, from major corporations to small technical problems, I've been told hundreds, maybe over a thousand times, that no one else is reporting this or that, that it couldn't work that way, or even that they've heard of a problem but haven't figured it out. And sometimes I'm wrong or it is a truly an individual case, as it might be this time. Not often, though (usually, I hear later one way or another that others actually had been reporting the same thing, or that the information I provided broke the case open).
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

OK - I missed this:
As indicated in my OP, I installed Editor because occasionally it is of use.

That makes sense.

The Viewer is just going to get further and further behind. Eventually it will no longer be supported at all. You will need to prepare for that day unfortunately.

Did you know that the Editor also has a highly configurable UI that can be customised to be simpler and cleaner as is the Viewer. It also supports the ability to be heavily customised through a Group Policy Administrative Template. Those options may help you make the shift. They are just suggestions.

Regards the changing of the file associations, I am not doubting your word, only passing on that it should not be possible, thus the need to reproduce your situation and confirm the behaviour.
To that end I need the details of the versions you used. Can you tell me what build of the Viewer was installed when the Editor installer was applied and your associations changed?

sincerely
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Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
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genegold
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

My last post gave the current build I have, which would have applied to what happened last week or two - 322.7 (v 2.5). It says August, which seems farther back than I recall for Viewer, but my memory isn't what it used to be. For the builds prior to that, I'd say check your list back about twelve months, although it might be a little less or a little more.

If you don't find anything, consider getting ahold of me when the next update for Editor is about to be released and maybe we can work out a way for you to view what happens.
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Thanks genegold

I will post here soon. Thanks for your ongoing cooperation.

regards
Best regards

Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
david king
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by david king »

I can also confirm that this problem with Editor updates changing the default app for .pdf files does exist. As a long time user, I am accustomed to this bad behavior and having to manually restore the .pdf file association back to its original setting after completing a PDF-XChange update. My latest experience occurred this morning when I downloaded the .zip file for PDF Editor Pro 323.1 and installed it on top of my existing 323.0 installation. The default .pdf app on my Window 10 Pro x64 PC was set to Adobe Reader XI. However, after running a complete installation of the PDF-XChange Pro update, the file association had been changed to the PDF-XChange Editor.
genegold
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

Dave - Thanks for noticing and posting. Are you saying that today you downloaded the zip file from the Tracker site? Seeing your post, I checked for updates within X-Change Viewer, found the Editor one and downloaded/installed it. However, this time it left the Viewer default alone. So perhaps in the past day or so they've gotten to part of the problem, but not all of it.
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by david king »

I do not use the built-in Check for Updates function. I get the .zip file directly from the End Users Downloads page and install it over my existing installation of PDF-Xchange Pro. In the distant past, I had problems with Tracker Software’s built-in updater and from then on discontinued its use in favor of manually downloading install files when I became aware of an update.

I run Software Update Monitor (SUMo) on my PC daily to check for available updates to installed applications. Unlike built-in update functions, SUMo notifies you that an update is available before you need to use the application and does not require you to check individual product web sites, although I do that in the particular case of PDF-XChange. As an example, here is what SUMo users were reporting for their installed versions of PDF-Xchange Editor (64 bits) as of this afternoon (14 Dec 2017, 1600 PST), the first day after posting of the 323.1 update:

Versions Users
7.0.323.1 35 (36%)
7.0.323.0 44 (45%)
6.0.322.7 14 (14%)
Other 6 (5%)
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi guys,

just to confirm - are you doing a "Custom" or a "Complete" install when running the installers? If you do a complete install it will take over the file associations, you have to select a Custom Install and explicitly uncheck the third item "Set PDF-XChange Editor as the default application for PDF files." in the following dialogue:
Image

Can you confirm it resets the preferences when explicitly saying there not to?

I have run this test multiple times and despite The Edge frequently insisting on taking over I have not yet seen the Editor installer do this when explicitly told not to.

Would either of yo be prepared to let us remotely see this behaviour?
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Paul O'Rorke
Tracker Support North America
http://www.tracker-software.com
genegold
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

With custom, I don't get that window from within X-Change Viewer.

Follow up: Apparently, updating Editor from within Viewer didn't get all the way there. So I just used Tracker to update and in the process it changed the Windows PDF file association to Editor, just like it's always been doing for some time. No window like you posted has appeared offering a custom install. Just download box and then the countdown for install, then Close.
Last edited by genegold on Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
david king
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by david king »

I have been doing a “complete” install over an existing installation of PDF-Xchange Pro and don’t recall seeing the above dialog allowing the file association and show in browser settings to be changed. As indicated in your response, it is apparently unique to the custom install and the complete install simply alters these settings without providing any choice to the user or notification that the settings have been changed – a dubious implementation in my opinion.

There appears to be a general lack of information about what’s included in complete vs custom installs and any differences between the built-in update function and manual installs over existing installations. Note that by “complete” install, I assumed this was referring to the three separate products included in the PDF-XChange Pro bundle, not settings which are at the operating system level (file association) or peculiar to another application (e.g., Firefox). Likewise, the “Repair” option for PDF-XChange Pro (under Control Panel > Programs and Features) also changes the existing .pdf file association without warning.
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Hi guys,

I am referring to the third screen in the installer where yo get a choice between all the defaults or your custom choices:
Image

If you do not want the Editor to take over the file associations then you should continue to download the installers and choose a custom install when you want updates. You are correct that Tracker Updater will not offer you the option to do a custom install.

I personally think it's reasonable, it works for the vast majority of our users and we do offer a way to do the upgrade with your preferences so with the best will in the world, I do not see this changing.
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genegold
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

Paul - I think you're missing our responses, or at least mine. I've seen a lot of things in my many years, but that custom box or anything from Tracker with the word "custom" in it is not one of them.
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by david king »

Thanks for the clarification regarding custom and complete installs and updates. I will use the custom install in the future to avoid my pdf file associations and display in browser settings from being changed.

However, I believe it is considered bad form to be programatically changing file associations in Windows 10 as the Tracker installer and updater do. For example, see the following excerpt from Adobe regarding deployment of Acrobat and Reader:

“Prior to Windows 10, Adobe Acrobat and Reader would establish default association with PDF files during the installation process. So once installed, if a user clicked on a PDF file, it would automatically open up in Acrobat or Reader. This association was done for all users logging into the system. Post Windows 10, Microsoft recommends that applications do not take over file type associations programmatically and let the user make the choice. Acrobat and Reader honor this and the installers do not take over PDF file type association on install.”

https://blogs.adobe.com/deployment/2017 ... ators.html

The following recent Microsoft article provides further information on how file associations are supposed to be configured in Windows 10:

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/win ... r-it-pros/
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

Thanks David for the documentation. IMO, overriding defaults and audio/video that play automatically are very bad form.
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Paul - Tracker Supp »

Yes David, thanks for those links.

Well at the very least, this discussion has us thinking about how we do this. We will be reviewing the Microsoft requirements and best practices and review our approach.

At the end of the day we want to conform to any reasonable generally accepted practices.

Lets see what the new year brings in this regards. We do appreciate the input/feedback.
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genegold
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by genegold »

Glad you're going to take a look at it. There are two parts to this: 1) changing the user's default during updates of Editor without asking; and 2) changing the user's default to Editor from another program, in this case one of yours, without asking. I have a lot of programs on my computer and am not familiar with any other program that does either of those, although I'm guessing there probably some out there.

Follow up: I just updated Editor from within Viewer and it didn't change the default, even after reboot. However, when I updated Editor from within Editor to 6.2.1.0, it changed the pdf icons on the desktop to Editor but in the Control Panel pdf file association still showed as with Viewer. Reaffirming that changed all the icons back to Viewer.
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Re: Why do Editor updates override PDF default setting - still?

Post by Tracker Supp-Stefan »

Hello Genegold,

Thanks for the feedback! Absolutely - both points will be taken into account when reviewing this!

Happy holidays,
Stefan
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